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Post by CheesyChaz on Sept 30, 2004 22:59:42 GMT -5
i don't get what you're trying to say, are you saying ichiro's a selfish player? are you saying that because ichiro doesn't hit for power that means he can't be a great player? ichiro is a leadoff man, his job is to get on base anyway he can, if he can't hit for power then he can't hit for power but don't turn that into a diss of his game, 256+ hits is unheard of in this era of homeruns and relief pitchers, he should be getting his proper respect for that
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Post by qcomdrj on Oct 1, 2004 1:04:12 GMT -5
i don't get what you're trying to say, are you saying ichiro's a selfish player? are you saying that because ichiro doesn't hit for power that means he can't be a great player? ichiro is a leadoff man, his job is to get on base anyway he can, if he can't hit for power then he can't hit for power but don't turn that into a diss of his game, 256+ hits is unheard of in this era of homeruns and relief pitchers, he should be getting his proper respect for that None of that. I only sort of cracked on his lack of even warning track power. However, him getting on base hasn't helped the numbers 2-4 guys get any more hits, unlike in previous years (such as the one where they set the wins record). I never said he was selfish, just that people emphasizing this are missing the team aspect of the game. Notice the other records I referenced and try to refute them. I know he gets the hits probably because he isn't trying to put it over the fence like most of the BALCO guys. Tit for tat though, in his first 154 games this year, he was 7 behind the record. Just like Maris, the asterisk should stand. They have modern era records for ones set after 1898, why not just keep both stats. I think he deserves the stat for most hits in a season of 162 games, but that other guy deserves to keep his stat too. They shouldn't move him down to number 2, because nobody knows how many he would have gotten over the next 8 games if their season was the same length.
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Post by CheesyChaz on Oct 1, 2004 1:09:32 GMT -5
and nobody knows how many hits ichiro would have gotten in sislers era even if it was only 154 games, you can't just say that because he played in 8 less games sisler would have gotten more hits, it's not that simple
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Post by qcomdrj on Oct 1, 2004 8:49:41 GMT -5
But throwing Sisler's record away, or putting it second is? Make a new era record. Keep Sisler's as the 154 game season record. Babe Ruth should have the 154 game HR record, because nobody beat him either. That's the thing, nobody knows if it could have been done, but everyone seems to say that the benefit of the doubt falls on the new guys. Remember, the game has been changed to increase the offense (smaller strike zone, closer fences). It's a tossup.
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Post by CheesyChaz on Oct 1, 2004 16:33:44 GMT -5
exactly it's toss up, nobody knows, so we might as well make one season record and leave it at that
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Post by qcomdrj on Oct 1, 2004 20:45:55 GMT -5
One record doesn't do justice. Kind of like saying that a 15-0 team was better than a 14-0 team. You can't compare them directly, so let them each have their own stat line. It's not Sisler's fault baseball increased the number of games, why reduce his stat?
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Post by CheesyChaz on Oct 1, 2004 20:52:48 GMT -5
because the number of games have nothing to do with it, it is most hits in a season it doesn't matter how many games were played because they were both full seasons, and it's not fair to ichiro to just give sisler the benefit of the doubt when we have no idea what kind of competition there was 84 years ago, did you notice that the 20's have all of the 250 hit seasons in major league history? there's more than likely a reason for that
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Post by tigerbait99 on Oct 1, 2004 22:13:06 GMT -5
ICHIRO HAS BROKEN THE RECORD!!!!!!!! #258!!!!!
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Post by CheesyChaz on Oct 1, 2004 22:13:08 GMT -5
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Post by soonerfan07 on Oct 1, 2004 22:34:26 GMT -5
congrats to ICHIRO!!!
too bad his team is in last
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Post by CheesyChaz on Oct 1, 2004 22:38:33 GMT -5
congrats to ICHIRO!!! too bad his team is in last did you have to bring that last part up? i was starting to forget about that with edgar's last games and ichiro breaking the record, oh well i'll admit it, the mariners suck ;D
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Post by Hoosier on Oct 2, 2004 0:44:09 GMT -5
Congrats Ichiro!!!! Awesome year
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Post by qcomdrj on Oct 2, 2004 1:45:14 GMT -5
because the number of games have nothing to do with it, it is most hits in a season it doesn't matter how many games were played because they were both full seasons, and it's not fair to ichiro to just give sisler the benefit of the doubt when we have no idea what kind of competition there was 84 years ago, did you notice that the 20's have all of the 250 hit seasons in major league history? there's more than likely a reason for that Ok, first, to prove that I think he should still get the record (most modern era hits in a season), allow me to ask this. If the season is full, and it doesn't matter how long, then should Japan take Ichiro's record and make it theirs? He holds the record for hits in a 130 game season in Japan (with 210 hits). But if it was a full season, shouldn't they just go ahead and take this new one, even though there were 32 more games here? And at what difference in seasons do you start making differences. What if Sisler's record was in a 129 game season, like the 1890 Brooklyn Trolley Dodgers (thankfully L.A. doesn't keep that part of the name)? And Sisler still has more hits per game at 1.69. Ichiro will have to hit 271 to beat that. If you want to nitpick. His line from that year is 257 H, 49 2B, 18 3B, 19 HR, and 122 RBI, for a total of 399 bases. Ichiro's is 259 H, 24 2B, 5 3B, 8 HR, and 60 RBI for 317 bases. One of these was the juiced ball era, but has bigger gloves and astroturf. The other isn't. That's why you can't compare them, and they should have separate lines. Oh, and there were 7 250 hit seasons, 1930 (254) (250), 1925 (253), 1929 (254), 1920 (257), 1922 (250), and 2004 (??). I really wouldn't call that a lot, considering. More of those than 60 HR seasons. This years ERA leader is .227, 1920 was .190. The game wasn't that different. It involved a 90 ft square diamond, 9 players, and a batter. Sisler's record shouldn't be second.
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Post by CheesyChaz on Oct 2, 2004 16:21:40 GMT -5
i don't get what's so hard to understand, it doesn't matter what kind of hits he got, it doesn't matter how many games he played, all that matters is that ichiro got more hits than sisler in one season, and you can't just have two different records because that's like saying that sisler holds the real record but ichiro holds the 162 game mark, we have no idea if sisler would have gotten more hits in this era or if ichiro could have gotten 260 hits in that era so we just have one record to make it as fair as possible
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Post by qcomdrj on Oct 2, 2004 16:40:18 GMT -5
because that's like saying that sisler holds the real record No, a different record. They already have records from before they went to the 154 game season. I don't see you complaining about those. And it doesn't make it fair to give someone 8 more games. Or perhaps fair means something else to you. You didn't refute any of my statements, I think this is an emotional debate now.
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