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Post by tigerbait99 on Aug 26, 2004 22:04:19 GMT -5
I'm going to go with Maravich
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Post by fullforce11 on Aug 26, 2004 23:59:24 GMT -5
I'm going to go with Maravich There have been a lot of players that could've done what Maravich did if they didn't play against black players. Its Lou Alcindor, easily. (I have not idea how to spell his name) Though i will plug Len Bias as one of the 5 greatest of all time, best 2/3 swingman in college bball history. (Thats if we're taking them at their best, not over all four year, then its David Thompson.)
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wordjockey
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Post by wordjockey on Aug 27, 2004 2:30:13 GMT -5
Saying Maravich wasn't a great player because he didn't play against predominantly black competetion is incredibly stupid. You could say the same for Wilt Chamberlain, and you would sound just as off base. Pete was an incredible offensive talent, shooter, passer, and dribbler. Overall, I would go with Oscar Robertson or Bill Walton, but to make that statemant about Maravich is just uninformed. He played in the pros, and did just fine offensively, on poor teams, playing against a lot of great black players. Len Bias was a good player, but gets this "aura" around him because he died. Look at the record books. Did he dominate the national competition? No. David Thompson, you could argue, was among the best, or Bernard King, or a lot of others. Don't let Maryland glasses and youth blind you to good players from the past.
An add on: Maravich, (and Alcindor, Robertson, Thompson, etc) scored all those points in 3 years of eligibility. Top that. A player today won't do that against the Washington Generals. The game is different, granted, but it ain't gonna happen. Players are too busy now trying to go one-on-one for a dunk to make the Sportscenter highlights.
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Post by DeeCee on Aug 27, 2004 9:00:11 GMT -5
Probably the best frontcourt to play in one state at one time...
(1985)
Len Bias...College Park, Maryland Patrick Ewing...Landover, Maryland David Robinson...Annapolis, Maryland
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matt
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Post by matt on Aug 27, 2004 9:11:39 GMT -5
By the end of his college basketball career, Laettner held the NCAA basketball records for most Final Fours as a starter (4) most games (148), and NCAA tournament career scoring. He also held the mark for most free throws attempted and most free throws made.
1991 Consensus second team all american...final four most outstanding player..All NCAA tournament team member... 1992 National Player of the year AP, UPI, UABWA, NABC...Naismith award...Wooten award...NCAA unanimous first team All American...All-NCAA tournament team...Jersey (#32)retired by Duke University while still an active player...selected to U.S. Olympic team...Drafted third overall in NBA draft (Minnesota Timberwolves)". Individual NCAA Tournament Records;
Most games played Most Free Throws made, Career 142 (23 games) Most Free Throw attempts, career 167 (23 games) Most Points career 407 (23 games) Highest field goal percentage (min of 5 made per game), series (3 game minimum) 78.8 (26-33) 1989 (5 games)" Championships;
1991-NCAA Tournament 1992-ACC Tournament 1992 NCAA Tournament 1992 Tournament of the Americas 1992 Olympic Tournament
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wordjockey
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Post by wordjockey on Aug 27, 2004 9:14:22 GMT -5
Probably the best frontcourt to play in one state at one time... (1985) Len Bias...College Park, Maryland Patrick Ewing...Landover, Maryland David Robinson...Annapolis, Maryland Now THAT statement I could agree with.
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wordjockey
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Post by wordjockey on Aug 27, 2004 9:20:58 GMT -5
As for the Laettner stats... It will sound like sour grapes, coming from a UK fan, and I don't deny he played great in the NCAA's... BUT he got to play 4 years, and there are more games ( 64 teams since '85, I think) so Walton, Alcindor, and co. Can't compete on the totals records. I would bet they would have had more, if in a 64 team tourney and allowed 4 years to play. Again, not denying Latner his due, just pointing out apples and oranges.
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Post by BrewCityBuck on Aug 27, 2004 10:10:39 GMT -5
Being a Bucks fan and a Oscar fan I have to go with him.
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matt
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Post by matt on Aug 27, 2004 10:25:30 GMT -5
As for the Laettner stats... It will sound like sour grapes, coming from a UK fan, and I don't deny he played great in the NCAA's... BUT he got to play 4 years, and there are more games ( 64 teams since '85, I think) so Walton, Alcindor, and co. Can't compete on the totals records. I would bet they would have had more, if in a 64 team tourney and allowed 4 years to play. Again, not denying Latner his due, just pointing out apples and oranges. Oh,I agree! Those two guys (and several others ) would have done more than Laettner did given the same scenerio as he had. Only a fool would think theat Laettner was better than Kareem. He achored the BEST Single Season TEAM of all Time... John Wooden: "I've never come out and said it, but it would be hard to pick a team over the 1968 team."
The Bruins, playing with an injured Alcindor, suffered a mid-season loss to Houston and Elvin Hayes in the Astrodome, but proved that was a fluke in the tourney semifinal, burying the Cougars 101-69. The final was also cake, a 78-55 win over UNC.
How'd they do it? To start, they had Alcindor, the best player in college basketball history, who averaged 26 points and 16 rebounds per game. Junior guard Lucius Allen, senior Mike Warren, Jr., Lynn Shackleford and senior Mike Lynn also averaged in double figures for the season. Also ....From 1972-74, Bill Walton led UCLA to an 86-4 record and two national titles.
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Post by DeeCee on Aug 27, 2004 11:16:56 GMT -5
By the end of his college basketball career, Laettner held the NCAA basketball records for most Final Fours as a starter (4) most games (148), and NCAA tournament career scoring. He also held the mark for most free throws attempted and most free throws made. you gotta take Laettner's surrounding cast into consideration... Grant Hill Bill McCaffrey Thomas Hill Brian Davis Bobby Hurley Would Laettner have been just as good playing for Clemson? I doubt Laettner could have led the '88 Kansas team to the National Title... He was good...but he had a great surrounding cast that wouldn't allow teams to double-down on him because the 4 other guys were just as much as a threat...
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Post by fullforce11 on Aug 28, 2004 15:18:37 GMT -5
Saying Maravich wasn't a great player because he didn't play against predominantly black competetion is incredibly stupid. You could say the same for Wilt Chamberlain, and you would sound just as off base. Pete was an incredible offensive talent, shooter, passer, and dribbler. Overall, I would go with Oscar Robertson or Bill Walton, but to make that statemant about Maravich is just uninformed. He played in the pros, and did just fine offensively, on poor teams, playing against a lot of great black players. Len Bias was a good player, but gets this "aura" around him because he died. Look at the record books. Did he dominate the national competition? No. David Thompson, you could argue, was among the best, or Bernard King, or a lot of others. Don't let Maryland glasses and youth blind you to good players from the past. An add on: Maravich, (and Alcindor, Robertson, Thompson, etc) scored all those points in 3 years of eligibility. Top that. A player today won't do that against the Washington Generals. The game is different, granted, but it ain't gonna happen. Players are too busy now trying to go one-on-one for a dunk to make the Sportscenter highlights. The problem with putting Maravich on the list is not that he didn't play "predominantly" black players. It is that he played NO black players, the SEC was all White is his day. Was he a great college player? yes. But he doesn't belong in this onversation. Kentucky fans know all too well what happens when play in a all white league after they got beat by Texas Western in Cole Field House years back. To prove my point, look what happened to him when e did play against black players, professionally, He got embarrassed often. He's and amazing player, no doubt, but doesn't stack up against Alcindor, Walton, Larry Bird, David Thompson, Len Bias, Patrick Ewing, Oscar Robertson, David Robinson, and others.
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Post by buike24blue on Aug 28, 2004 15:39:44 GMT -5
"look what happened to him when e did play against black players, professionally, He got embarrassed often. He's and amazing player, no doubt, but doesn't stack up against Alcindor, Walton, Larry Bird, David Thompson, Len Bias, Patrick Ewing, Oscar Robertson, David Robinson, and others. "
....one, maravich was one of the 50 greatest nba players.....two, michael jordan is the greatest ever
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Post by huskersrule01 on Aug 28, 2004 16:55:45 GMT -5
I think it is hard to pick the one best player even in college bball becuase there have been a lot of great players and the game has changed quite a bit between when different great players played.
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Post by devilbear on Aug 29, 2004 13:37:44 GMT -5
Of the players I have watched in person the best were Len Bias Christian Laetner Shane Battier Overall I would say David Thompson was the greatest, I'm not sure anyone dominated in college quite like he did. (sorry for the obvious ACC bias)
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wordjockey
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Post by wordjockey on Aug 29, 2004 23:58:38 GMT -5
The problem with putting Maravich on the list is not that he didn't play "predominantly" black players. It is that he played NO black players, the SEC was all White is his day. Was he a great college player? yes. But he doesn't belong in this onversation. Kentucky fans know all too well what happens when play in a all white league after they got beat by Texas Western in Cole Field House years back. To prove my point, look what happened to him when e did play against black players, professionally, He got embarrassed often. He's and amazing player, no doubt, but doesn't stack up against Alcindor, Walton, Larry Bird, David Thompson, Len Bias, Patrick Ewing, Oscar Robertson, David Robinson, and others. I will start with a quote from before your time... "Jane, you ignorant slut!" First of all, I brought up Wilt Chamberlain to show you how stupid your argument is. Check and see how many black players he played against at Kansas. Next, UK did lose with an all white team to Texas Western in 1966. How many black players were in your wonderful, precious ACC in the '65 - '66 season? One. Two more were added the next year, so don't get preachy. Next, let's examine Maravich in the pros: He played on losing teams, as top draft picks often do. His rookie season, his average was 23.2 ppg,(9th in the league) and was named to the all-rookie team. In his 3rd season he averaged 26.1, 5th in the NBA ( a teamate was 4th) and went to his first all-star game. He also had 6.9 assists per game, good for 6th in the league. In the '75 -'76 year he was 3rd in the league in scoring (behind Macadoo and Jabbar) The next part comes straight from the NBA website: "The following season was Maravich's finest as a professional. He saw action in 73 games and led the NBA in scoring with a career-best 31.1 p p g. He scored 40 or more points 13 times, the most in the NBA that season and he led the league in total points (2,273), field goals attempted (2,047) and free throws made (501). On Feb. 25, 1977, he scored 68 points in a game against the New York Knicks despite the efforts of defensive ace Walt Frazier to bottle him up. Maravich's performance that day ranks as the 11th-best single-game total in NBA history. He returned to the NBA All-Star Game in 1977 and earned his second straight berth on the All-NBA First Team" Also from the same site: "Maravich was a notorious long-range bomber during his career, but ... he had never played in a league, college or pro, that used the three-point shot. All of his many points had come on two-pointers, even when launched from a great distance. In 1979-80, the NBA finally adopted the three-point shot. In his final season-with his skills rusty, his knees creaky, and his minutes limited-Pistol Pete Maravich finally got a chance to shoot three-pointers. He went 10-for-15." Doesn't sound embarassing to me... In conclusion; your arguments, as stated before are baseless, stupid, and don't deal with facts. Grow some pubes and do some research before you make claims you can't back up. You are making Maryland fans look bad. I like them, for the most part, but you aren't helping.
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